Wednesday, December 5, 2012

a prophetic vision





21 comments:

Captain Noble said...

That might be the funniest response I've seen so far to Douthat's post.

Anonymous said...

bravo

Brett said...

I'm seconding Captain Noble. Great stuff.

More seriously, what amuses me is the assumption here that our American identity is genetic, and if we don't breed children, it is doomed to die out. As if we don't absorb other people over time.

Typist said...

Heroic.

TheStone said...

Fantastic stuff, but don't laugh too hard. You never know when we might need to outlast the Chinese through several years of trench warfare. The man with the biggest battalions wins and all that.

Anonymous said...

Freddie - First of all, I returned to reading your blog after a few months and wanted to thank you for some really creative thinking and excellent writing.

Now on to the criticism: after your excellent post on irony and the worship of triviality from last month, I find the cartoon about Douthat above ironic and trivializing. Whatever you think of the demographic issues advanced economies are facing, I don't think Douthat's points about the birthrate are being fairly presented in this satire. His points are serious, I'm sure everyone is at least a little concerned by the birthrate issue (leaving solutions, aside) and he certainly was addressing men & women together. This cartoon is dogwhistling.


If you think the cartoon is just funny without being meaningful, that's fine. I like a laugh as much as anybody.
jult52

JS Bangs said...

I think that Douthat actually responded to most of your criticisms in his followup. But who cares? This was hilarious.

JS Bangs said...

I think that Douthat actually responded to most of your criticisms in his followup. But who cares? This was hilarious.

Brian M said...

No, only reactionary nationalists with a serious dose of racist assumptions are concerned in any way about a "birthrate problem".

Talk about "dog whistling".

Do you really think there are too few people in the world? Given the degree of over consumption and waste in the American lifestyle, it can be more rationally argued that the American population SHOULD shrink. If that means reduced power as a nation state, so be it. As some of us are not fans of The Great Game anyway....

Anonymous said...

This is both childish AND completely unresponsive to Douthat's point. Congratulations. Well-played.

davidly said...

To criticize this post because its target's "points are serious" is question begging. And dog-whistling.

Anonymous said...

Brian M - You've insulted someone on the internet, making the world a better place. Good for you.


jult52

Anonymous said...

davidly - Question begging refers to assuming the argument one wishes to prove. I'm not sure where my post engages in question begging, whatever its potential flaws.

I used "dog whistling" to mean the cartoon made pretty harsh personal attacks at Douthat through innuendo, with the implication that these same attacks made explicitly would appear ridiculous.

jult52

Freddie said...

What personal attacks did I make against Douthat?

Judd said...

Love the comic, Freddie. Can we get a link to Douthat's post?

Freddie said...

Here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/opinion/sunday/douthat-the-birthrate-and-americas-future.html?ref=rossdouthat

Sorry, it's one of those pieces the blogs have been buzzing about, which I have a bad habit of assuming everyone has already read.

Judd said...

Never mind, sometimes too lazy to use Google. Here's the link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/opinion/sunday/douthat-the-birthrate-and-americas-future.html

Anonymous said...

"What personal attacks did I make against Douthat?"

The implication of sexism at the end, Freddie, which I think is unwarranted and just not productive.

jult52

Freddie said...

OK. But I'm not interested in Douthat's personal sexism, whether that's a fair characterization or not. What I'm interested in is the way his stated policy position against abortion and long history of concern trolling on birth control and women's sexual liberation contribute to a general lack of respect for female autonomy and self-ownership.

davidly said...

jult52 said: davidly - Question begging refers to assuming the argument one wishes to prove. I'm not sure where my post engages in question begging, whatever its potential flaws.

I know what question begging is. Maybe I should have said "To criticize this post because its target's "points are serious" assumes that the arguments are serious.

Anonymous said...

Clap. Clap. Clap.

This is magnificent.