Thursday, December 22, 2011

there's just no sense in being halfway radical

Over time I've really come to see Kevin Drum as a symbol for modern American liberalism-- he's increasingly despondent and incredibly stuck. Modern American liberalism is filled with people who have righteous moral convictions that they have made totally irrelevant due to their dogged adherence to a broken system.

Take this post. It's called "How 2008 Radicalized Me," and it describes how the truly unbelievable events of 2008 (rightly, reasonably) caused Drum to become more radical. That's as natural a story as one can get; a small group of fantastically well-compensated people drove the entire worldwide economy to the brink of total collapse through their greed and incompetence. To not be radicalized in the face of such events is intellectual death. Of course, despite these events, and despite their being the inevitable consequence of our current macroeconomic policy, most people have not changed, and neither has that policy

The question is what this has actually meant for Kevin Drum in any substantive sense.

To be clear, I'm not at all a "where's the policy angle?" kind of guy. When people dismiss an argument by sniffing about "policy options," it's just about always a way to shrink the realm of the possible and discredit alternative opinion. But you'd like to get a sense of what radicalism means for Drum in context here. His post doesn't offer much to indicate what kind of radical change he'd pursue.
Maybe more executives should have been fired, maybe the Department of Justice should have tossed more Wall Street traders in jail, and maybe a couple of big money center banks should have been placed in temporary receivership.
In  other words, the things that maybe should have been done in response to one of the greatest crises in the history of capitalism-- a systematic failure that resulted in incredible human suffering for those who were least responsible for it-- are exactly the things that wouldn't have created any lasting or fundamental change. A few of the actors would have been punished, but there would have been no systematic change that could have prevented the next crisis. More, there would be no challenge to the fundamental problem: that great economic resources give these corporations and individuals nearly limitless political clout, which prevents any real change or accountability. Just as the 20008 crisis resulted in essentially no reform or accountability of genuine impact.

Drum continues:
But hoo boy, what a contrast with how the rest of us were treated. Things like principal write-downs, second waves of stimulus, aid to states, and mortgage cramdown all got a bit of idle chatter but were then left to die. For some reason, it would have been unfair to hand out money to profligate homeowners, state and local workers, and the millions who have been unemployed for more than a year.
My endless frustration with this position is the notion that we our failure enact all these "regular person" programs is some preventable error, like it just sort of happened that way. I have no objection to the standard Keynesian case made by Drum and Krugman and Yglesias et al, that we could spend some government cash, loosen up our money, drum up aggregate demand, decrease unemployment, and do some limited good for a lot of people out there. I'd vote for such a thing in a heartbeat. But there's this bizarre failure to understand that these measures are not happening for precisely the same reason that no adequate regulatory power has been exercised over the banks, for the same reason that there's been no accountability for those responsible, for the same reason nothing has meaningfully changed: because moneyed interests control our system. To point out that those with vast financial assets control the Congress, the Fed, and our entire economic policy is at once to invite claims of crankery and conspiracy theorizing, and to state the painfully obvious.

Drum gets to the nut of it:
This is how 2008 radicalized me. It's one thing to know that the rich and powerful basically control things. That's the nature of being rich and powerful, after all. But in 2008 and the years since, they've really rubbed our noses in it. It's frankly hard to think of America as much of a true democracy these days.
So here's my question: what do you want to do about it? How do you rescue true democracy in the face of ever-greater capture of our political process by the rich and powerful? I've followed Drum's blog for years, but before or in the month since this post, he's offered little in the way of suggestions. He's got a lot of small-bore, CAP and WaPo-approved triangulating policy shifts, but nothing that can address complaints of this size. To me, all of this-- not just the financial crisis, but the continuing inability of our society to live up to its basic social contract-- suggests that we need actually radical reform. Moving the deck chairs simply is not sufficient anymore. You cannot overstate how close we all came to total economic collapse, yet in the face of that we have adopted terribly weak reforms.

Here's an idea: nationalize the investment banking industry. Eliminate the profit motive, removing the incentive to find ever-more-risky investment vehicles. Stop them from accruing enormous financial assets during boom times, which gives them the political power to ensure that the government will bail them out in bust times. (If you think that we wouldn't bail out BofA or Citi or any of the big ones should they start to fail tomorrow, or that they aren't busily building the next disastrous bubble, you're very naive.) Keep savings banks local, support cooperative credit unions, go the full "Sweden in 1992" on the big banks, but make it permanent. It's a start.

Of course, if Drum wanted to look in this kind of direction for real reform, he'd have to be willing to do what so many of them are unwilling to do: give up a seat at the table. The gatekeepers of liberal political discourse don't permit this kind of radicalism, and Drum would have to make a very direct trade between articulating reforms that can actually counter the problems he sees and being taken seriously by the liberal intelligentsia. (You'll note that this dynamic doesn't hold in the other direction-- Drum could advocate some radical conservative reform, like the gold standard or something, and perfectly mainstream conservatives and libertarians would stroke their chin and talk about what a bold iconoclast he is.) Drum isn't a "cocktail party at Nick Gillespie's house" kind of a blogger, but professional regard and reputation affect everybody. He is also not one of those common politicos who views politics as a kind of game or sport; he's always struck me as genuinely committed. But to be taken seriously, he can't advocate what it would take to create genuine change. So he's stuck.

In this sense he strikes me as emblematic of American liberals, or progressives, if we must use a term of defeat. Drum has articulated a radical's passion, and is hemmed in by decidedly anti-radical peers. Like many liberals, he can poignantly articulate our moral duty but can present no compelling argument for how to accomplish it.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Kevin Drum will continue to do what they all do-- chase merrily after the center as the conservatives drag it further and further to the right. I can't quite blame him. As someone who has never enjoyed influence, it's too easy for me to tell someone who does to abandon it. But over time, the gulf between the principles and goals which animates him, and the ability of establishment reforms to deliver them, will only grow. For people facing that kind of a divide, I'd say that there's three choices. Grow more despondent. Grow more compromised, and make the work of the nominally liberal the work of complaining about regulation, taxes, and impediments to "free markets." Or let your mind get blown.

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's sort of a bogus move on my part, but I'll go there:

Which system is broken? Capitalism or the Republic? Because if it's the latter, nationalizing Wall Street seems to me to be pretty small beer. -K.

Zach said...

I think my new default answer to people saying regulation is the problem is going to be that the first regulation to go should be property rights.

Freddie said...

Baby steps, K., baby steps....

Tim Donaghy said...

Not sure you've proven your point about Drum being held back by the need for professional regard. I know that's your hobbyhorse, but I don't think it fits here.

He always strikes me as someone who is temperamentally conservative, whatever his politics might be. He's admitted many times in print that he feels intellectually stuck as to positive steps to propose -- I expect that's because he is genuinely worried about the unintended consequences of radical steps, such as nationalizing banks.

kris said...

Well put, Freddie.

I like the idea of quadrupling taxes on the wealthy and using that money to do things like stabilize the business cycle, to make colleges cheaper, to expand social security, create medicare for all (actually saves money), improving teacher pay and making it a real profession, cracking down on polluters, etc.

In general, I'm for Swedenizing the U.S. I'm not sure Drum is, though, which is odd.

It's actually a really simple solution.

I wonder if that would be a succesful political party? "The Swedenists"

We all know how the Republicans would respond to Swedenism. "You hate America. You Frenchy-Fag. You are a godless Commie. Look at how poor and horrid the average Swede is."

But I think that attack would lose all rhetorical force very quickly if you continually advocated Swedenism long enough.

These quotes from Wikipedia would be Swedenist slogans:

"From the mid 90s until today Sweden's economic growth has once again accelerated and has been higher than in most other industrialised countries (including the US) during the last 15 years."

Even though...

"As of 2007, total tax revenue was 47.8% of GDP, the second highest tax burden among developed countries, down from 49.1% 200"

and...

"Eighty percent of the workforce is organised in trade-unions which also have the right to elect two representatives to the board in all Swedish companies with more than 25 employees."

Lately Sweden has made some minimal roll backs to the Socialist Welfare State, but it's still there.

Josh said...

I don't at all disagree that radical measures are called for -- they are, absolutely -- but they've gotta come from a different direction than nationalization of part of the private sector, or increased centralization of any kind. That's ultimately just one more way of kicking the can down the road, while at the same time prompting the sort of violent reaction from a big chunk of the American population that, frankly, we just can't afford to deal with in the next few decades. (Not to mention that nationalization is just not that radical; it's only so in contrast with this country's deeply ingrained worldview.)

Fake Herzog said...

I shouldn't bother, but I just can't resist...

1) Zach -- as the name implies, property rights are God-given natural rights that are enforced by the State through laws; regulations have very little to do with the fundamental right except at the margin w/r/t how we use our property. There are two basic explanations for what happened in 2008, the liberal explanation which Freddie briefly recapped here and the correct, conservative explanation.

2) kris -- I'm trying to think of why Sweden has been successful at socialism even though everyone else has failed miserably. Hmmm, I wonder what it could be about Sweden -- they are just like America in every single way...oh wait, maybe they aren't ;-)

kris said...

I hope that post is from Fake Herzog is ironic (I think it is), cause that link is some double-crazy dog-whistle racism.

I take it that the author of that post means to say that Sweden is great because Sweden is white and was once Jesus-ified. (Not in the stupid Catholic way.)

Of course, we all know that America has benefited economically from wave after wave of immigration: the Irish, the Chinese, Indians, etc. They aren't the problem, right?

I guess he really means that America has too many black people and Mexicans to work well as a Socialist state. That indeed is the Republican take: "You can't have subsidized college and a decent welfare state, because darky is naturally lazy and will take advantage of it. This is all the more reason to hate darky."

Zach said...

Fake H

If a disease strikes and kills all but two people. You living wherever you are, and someone who holds exactly your views but lives on the other side of the earth. How do you decide who owns everything?

If you can't, how can you possibly claim property rights are natural rights?

Will said...

I'm inclined to favor a few minor tweaks, so let me suggest a case for incremental change(from either the left or right): Things are basically OK. Our society is still immensely rich. By nearly any metric, we're better off than at any point in human history. So why is radical change necessary?

Freddie said...

Good points, guys.

ovaut said...

'20008'--there's a typo to stop you in your tracks.

There will, you know, there will be a year 20008, whatever we do.

ovaut said...

in the 'endless frustration' graf you hit the nail on the money. The blogosphere Keynesians need to understand: the fact that their solutions won't get implemented is the problem. You can't keep recommending them as solutions: what's the solution to the fact that they aren't solutions? Just to wait? Wait for a catastrophe so everyone realises: Hey, we should've had a bigger stimulus all along! Because that's how humans react to catastrophes?

That Fuzzy Bastard said...

Ovaut: Are you really saying that the problem with Drum's Keynesian proposals is that they'll never be enacted... and that's an argument in favor of calling for total nationalization of the investment banking industry? Does that strike you as *more* likely to happen? Of course not---the whole point being made here is that one should make proposals without regard for what can actually be done given the current political system. That, rather than a desire to be invited to parties, is what really divides Freddie from Drum: Drum is by background an engineer, while Freddie is by background a rhetorician, so for Freddie a plan is judged by its beauty, while for Drum a proposal that can't be pushed through the political system is like a blueprint that assumes zero gravity. Well, plus Drum has enough economic knowledge to know that "Sweden in 1992 but permanent" has never been done in any free-or-even-semi-free country, and for very good reason, but as Freddie said above, it's a start.

Freddie said...

That's a very characteristic comment from you, TFB, in the sense that it is a comprehensive failure, combining ignorance, willful misreading, and unearned confidence.

I'm not a rhetorician; my interests lie in educational and pedagogical research, both of which are major parts of my field. I am studying education from outside of education departments for professional and academic reasons, which are private, not to mention of no interest to readers of this blog.

I don't, personally, evaluate arguments or ideas on the level of beauty. Rhetoric concerns the utility of language in meeting persuasive ends, and so beauty is only useful as a means to the end of persuasion, separating it from aesthetics or poetics.

You misunderstand or intentionally misconstrue my points, on several dimensions. This is a blog by an extremist; I've never hid that fact. I don't evaluate ideas based on whether or not they are immediately achievable. Neither does Kevin Drum, if you give his work an even cursory examination. All political projects are long term until they aren't. In my own short lifetime, gay marriage has gone from a crazy pipe dream to an expanding reality. I don't apologize for long term goals.

The idea that we are or should be "free" to develop massive, rapacious investment banks is a position you're free to hold, but it's quite uncommon and places you firmly in the land of libertarianism and extreme economic conservatives. I'm a socialist; I've never hid that. Why you would want to argue about the supposed right to build massive investment banks with someone who so disagrees with you on first principles is beyond me.

What I was complaining about, and what other commenters had the reading comprehension to understand, is that Drum et al. speak as if Keynesian economic platforms are close or easily achieved when there is no evidence to believe that is the case. In 2009, a president who had just been elected with a substantial mandate, who had run with an explicit promise to attempt a stimulus, whose party controlled both parties of Congress, was only able to pass a small stimulus, one virtually all Keynesian economists said was too small. What on earth makes you think a larger stimulus is any more politically feasible than any other reform?

And that is the larger point. Drum has a policy position without a political position, which is a common state for conventional American liberals. It's no greater failing than any other. But by maintaining the fiction that the changes in outcomes he wants can be achieved through our current process. Yes, getting what I want is very unlikely, but then I've said that's true for the entirety of my political life. The problem for people like Drum is that they try to achieve particular aims while maintaining an unrealistic belief in the available means. If you read with any charity at all, or even with a modicum of integrity, you'd see that this was part of the point of Drum's post: his sagging belief in the viability of our political economy.

But, of course, you don't read with integrity. You are the worst kind of troll, which is the troll who halfheartedly believes that he is actually trying to engage on some level. But you don't, and you aren't. This is "any port in a storm" argumentation, where you try on any line of attack that fits, no matter how painfully weak, or how entirely out of keeping with your complaints on earlier posts. If you're really trying to "hold me accountable," then why don't you recognize my arguments in the same good faith as my other commenters? What's amazing is your continued belief in your own ability to get at me. I've been dealing with people like you from the very beginning of this now 4-year-plus project. It always ends the same. You don't have the juice. You just don't.

Call the burn unit, dude, and Merry Christmas.

jcapan said...

A "radical" that continues to prop up 1/2 of the duopoly that's doing the oligarchs' bidding? Uh huh.

As you said, a radical that speaks the truth, say Chris Hedges, is immediately set off from serious debate. Guys like Drum are containment vessels. They articulate the discontent of earnest liberals who are equally reluctant to confront the radical changes American society must make to avoid collapse. But, like Krugman or Digby, in the end, they coo sweet participatory words that validate the very system they're condemning.

That Fuzzy Bastard said...

" Drum et al. speak as if Keynesian economic platforms are close or easily achieved when there is no evidence to believe that is the case"

Rather substantial reason, actually. If you recall the 2009 tick-tock, we were close to getting a stimulus that was twice or more the size of what we got (and a public option for health care), until it was scuttled by two senators, Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman. Without those two votes, Drum's desired larger stimulus would have been quite achievable, as opposed to your vision of a pre-15th-century world where only the government is allowed to make investments.

Really, in talking about the failure of the Obama administration to bring about more left-wing goals, I think people should pay a *lot* more attention to the failed campaign to oust Lieberman, which not only made left-wing politics unpassable via the Senate (particularly by leaving a wounded-and-angry Liberman in place), but also convinced much of the party establishment that the left didn't have the power to win elections and could therefore be dismissed as a noisy but unrepresentative fringe. In short, it seems like Drum has policy positions that are two votes away from achievement, while you hold policy goals that have not even the beginnings of a constituency. Which is fine---as you say yourself, you're trying to set a long-term vision, and are indifferent to the mechanics of bringing it about---but does make it odd that you're attacking Drum specifically for having goals without the means of achieving them.

As for the banks under discussion, well, I'm emphatically not a libertarian, I'm a liberal: I believe that markets are pretty good tools for distributing goods---or at least, better tools than centralized bureaucracies, which have a very bad track record---but they require extensive and constant regulation by said bureaucrats to keep from blowing themselves up. So in this case, I do think investment banks should continue to exist, since every attempt in history to eliminate private investment systems has led to terrible poverty and immiseration of the general population. But they need to be heavily regulated in order to not result in bad outcomes. The problem in our current system is the powerlessness of the regulators in the face of money, but that pendulum has swung both ways, and it seems short-sighted to think it can't be swung back. In the meantime, as a liberal, I'm equally contemptuous of free-market fundies who refuse to notice the harm an under-regulated market has done, and would-be socialists who seem to have never pondered why so many attempts to bring about socialism have resulted in so much suffering and death---there is a future for socialism, but not one which is so unreflective as yours.

And finally, on rhetoric, let me put it this way: Drum evaluates policy proposals as an engineer, based on whether they seem likely to work. You evaluate policy proposals as a rhetorician, based on whether they inspire. Your jaded palate can only be inspired by radical proposals, which is fine, kinda ("This is a blog by a radical" is a sentence that will be of great amusement to some future historians, I'm sure). But do you ever wonder why you are a vehement small-c conservative on the subject you know most about (education, where you ferociously attack any proposal for changing the system, especially radical ones), and a radical on the subjects of economics and politics, where you know so little?

Merry Christmas to you and yours, of course.

Frankel said...

I think you have k drum all wrong. That "radical" post of his notwithstanding, he's more of a pragmatic and measured type liberal. That's his personality (at least online).

Anonymous said...

Ah, the rotating villain theory offered up by Obama-pologists. From an obscure website, new to all surely:

"Many Democrats wanted Lieberman to be stripped of his chairmanship of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs due to his support for John McCain.[46] Republican Minority Leader Mitch McConnell reached out to Lieberman, asking him to caucus with the Republicans.[47] Ultimately, the Senate Democratic Caucus voted 42 to 13 to allow Lieberman to keep chairmanship (although he did lose his membership for the Environment and Public Works Committee). Subsequently, Lieberman announced that he will continue to caucus with the Democrats.[5] Lieberman credited President-elect Barack Obama for helping him keep his chairmanship. Obama had privately urged Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid not to remove Lieberman from his position. Reid stated that Lieberman's criticism of Obama during the election angered him, but that "if you look at the problems we face as a nation, is this a time we walk out of here saying, 'Boy did we get even'?" Senator Tom Carper of Delaware also credited the Democrats' decision on Lieberman to Obama's support, stating that "If Barack can move on, so can we."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lieberman

That Fuzzy Bastard said...

Anonymous? Sigh... I don't understand why you do that...

But yes, Obama kissed Lieberman's ass relentlessly once J.L. was back in. Which was very smart! Obama understood---as his detractors seem not to---that Lieberman was going to be the 60th vote for the foreseeable future, and was therefore going to be the determinant of whether the Dems got a watered-down set of policies passed, or got none at all. When you come at the king, you better not miss; the left managed to piss Lieberman off without knocking him down, and it was only Obama's flattery that got any health care bill passed at all.

Xanthippas said...

Great post. I've read Drum for a long time and I've always liked him because, as you say, he seems genuine. But yes I can see the limitations of his commentary as of late; it's as if he's shrugging his shoulders with a look of frustration on his face and saying "What are we supposed to about all this?" And I think you're right about the whole exorcism thing. Obviously, expressing non-mainstream opinions is a good way to get yourself exiled from the mainstream media, but it can also get you in a bit of trouble in the online community (even where people are used to ripping up mainstreamers for their mainstream ideas and defense of the status quo.) I think an example of this is Glenn Greenwald, who's running into a bit of trouble for his attacks against the administration and his willingness to go guns a'blazing against those who defend it's bad behavior on civil liberties and national security issues. Obviously Greenwald is a highly regarded blogger, with a fairly high station as that sort of thing goes, but you get the sense that there are those who'd be happy to eject from the online lefty community because of his willingness to hammer at the same issues repeatedly and piss people off about it. I don't actually see that working (too many important people agree with him) but the instinct is there.

bymaplestorymesos said...

I think my new default answer to people saying regulation is the problem is going to be that the first regulation to go should be property rights. I agree it



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