Tuesday, April 13, 2010

Colbert on Wikileaks

Many of the right people, today, are patting Stephen Colbert on the back for his interview with the Wikileaks founder. He is being congratulated for his moral seriousness, for breaking character to attack someone who, apparently, has really crossed the line. As Andrew Sullivan puts it, "I've never seen Colbert so clearly become his own character on the question of impugning the honor of American soldiers." Indeed.

It's a funny world we live in. Colbert has an opinion on whether or not what is revealed in that video is murder. He's entitled to it. Strange to see him step out of character; this, I take it, was a bridge too far, a crime too great to ignore: calling soldiers who fired round after round onto people attempting to load the wounded into a van and get them medical attention "murderers," well, that's past irony and shtick. That requires open and unequivocal condemnation. It's funny-- I consulted older videos of Colbert, online. He has spoken to members of Congress who voted for the war in Iraq several times. He has interview many who were involved in the apparatus of enacting the Iraq war, or who lent their considerable influence to the war effort. He has interview, that is to say, the people who created the material conditions where the victims of this attack were placed in harms way, where the soldiers involved were placed in danger of losing both their lives and their moral integrity. That's war, I'm told; you shouldn't wage it without being willing to risk atrocity.

Yet despite the fact that Colbert has had ample opportunity to react to the people who are directly responsible for such devastation, he has never been so animated when confronting them. He's never broken character to attack those who threw this country and its soldiers headlong into war while enduring none of war's horrors. He's never gotten so visibly offended. He's never taken such an obvious stand, hiding instead behind irony, comedy, and a character. Those, apparently, are his priorities; a man who reveals footage of the terrible consequences of war (no matter how it is edited and editorialized) deserves, apparently, far greater condemnation than the people who are actually responsible for those consequences. In this, I believe, Colbert is perfectly of a piece with the rest of his country, a people who have long since decided to say that they oppose the war in opinion polls but who take that opposition no farther.

The moral culpability of soldiers in war is extremely complicated, and I pretend to no certain or simple understanding of those issues. When Sullivan says "the question of impugning the honor of American soldiers," though-- what a falling off, I think. Is it really the case that we can make no considerations of the behavior of our soldiers at all, without being accused of "impugning the honor of American soldiers"? Has it come to that, finally? Have we lost all right even to make judgments? Have we so abdicated our own responsibilities, as the members of a democracy, that we now will countenance no questioning of the ethics of military action whatsoever, so long as those ethics are couched in the language of supporting the troops? Colbert asserts, in the video, that only those who have served in the military have any right to judge whether such an incident amounts to murder. I cannot even begin to enumerate the vast moral and democratic consequences of this thinking. I am sure, though, that it is pleasing to Colbert, and anyone else who wants to stand outside of the shroud of responsibility, for foreign policy, that covers anyone who is part of a democracy.

Do I support the troops? It depends. I support most of the troops, because I support troops who conduct themselves appropriately, who do everything they can to minimize risk to civilians, who go out of their way to get medical attention for civilian casualties. who follow all of the rules of engagement and of war, who act ethically in a time of war. I firmly believe that this encompasses a large majority of our soldiers, and for that, I am deeply grateful. There are many who would and will tell me that this distinction is illusory, and that I am engaging in sophistry; they might be right. But from within my perspective, I have to have criteria for giving any person or group of people my blessing, and those are my criteria.

The soldiers in this video? No. No, I don't support them. No. I do not support them. Their conduct has revealed themselves, to me, to be unworthy of my support. That's just me, and the question of those soldiers and their conduct is far beyond me.

It has always seemed to me that for my support to mean anything at all, it must come with conditions. What can it possibly mean to say that I support the troops if I support them unconditionally and without discrimination? What possible value could such a thing have? I tell you, it seems clear to me that for many Americans, there is no possible behavior that could cause them to condemn individual troops. Stephen Colbert, it seems, has standards of what constitutes condonable behavior by soldiers that is so low, I can't imagine any actual incident earning his condemnation. So what does his support mean? What laurel is it? What philosophical value does it have? I will say again what I have said for a long time: the more that supporting the troops becomes some sort of American duty, the more that it is enforced, everywhere, by our culture, the less it means. Supporting the troops means actually considering them and their behavior. "Support the Troops" is a bumper sticker.

I have read, recently, some who make the essential point, that "soldier" is a term that covers a vast number of people, and that like all large groups of people, "soldier" contains the bad as well as the good, rapists as well as heroes, people who will commit atrocities as well as those who will do everything to prevent them. It is my understanding that the latter in each instance greatly outnumber the former, and thank the all for that. But every war in the history of mankind has had atrocity, rape, murder, and from all sides. Don't kid yourself that where a soldier was born or the uniform he wears makes it impossible that he will participate in such.

John Cook wrote, about this video,
It's horrible to watch, and the pilots' disdain for the lives they were destroying is awful. But we can't see how it constitutes murder. It's what happens when you send a bunch of young angry men with billions of dollars worth of lethal toys into a civilian city and tell them to kill the bad guys. It should certainly be watched, and we're glad Wikileaks is publishing it. But it speaks more to the inherent dangers of initiating wars, and covering them, than of the specific behavior of U.S. personnel on that particular day.
 This sounds good to me. I can't follow Cook, and others, to the point of saying that this couldn't be murder. What possible standing can we have to call anything a war crime then? I don't know. I do know that, as Cook says, the central, most real, most constructive form of supporting the troops is to keep them out of harms way-- harm to their physical lives, and harm to their moral legitimacy. That is the only way I can see to save them, civilians, and our country's moral legitimacy, to get out of the business of projecting our military power around the globe.

The truth is that I don't know quite what to think about all of this. I don't know how to thread the needle of recognizing the terrible position soldiers are put in everyday, while refusing to give up any judgment of them at all. I don't know how to recognize their courage and sacrifice while condemning them when they do wrong, how to support the average soldier who is doing his or her very best without lapsing into the empty, enforced platitudes of supporting the troops and putting a ribbon magnet on a car. It seems like Stephen Colbert does know. He seems quite sure about who is and isn't subject to special scrutiny and criticism. He seems to know exactly who is and isn't empowered to criticize the American military. Maybe he does. Good for him, if so.

Personally, I think this country has fallen too far in love with its ability to compartmentalize war, far too confident in its dividing opposition to the war with support for the troops, far too certain that there is an easy or obvious stance towards the moral legitimacy of this war, all wars, these soldiers, all soldiers. Sometimes people say that what must happen is that Americans must wake up to the inevitable atrocity and devastation of war before we commit to a war effort. And I wonder-- does this country have that in it? Do we have that, in ourselves?

Update: Please see commenter -p for a very different perspective on Colbert's reaction.

25 comments:

Alex Waller said...

"Sometimes people say that what must happen is that Americans must wake up to the inevitable atrocity and devastation of war before we commit to a war effort. And I wonder-- does this country have that in it? Do we have that, in ourselves?"

If we did that, then we'd never go to war. But then that's exactly the point, isn't it?

-p. said...

I saw the interview last night and read it differently. Colbert was actually staying in character, not breaking it as he usually does (by signally with over-the-top rhetoric and a smirk that what he's saying is absurd).

Having Assange on in the first place is meant to read as a signal of support and endorsement to his clued-in audience, certainly unlike the appearances he's granted to various neocon warmongers.

In that context, Colbert's questions use straight-edge right-wing pro-military framing. All fair and justifiable points, in and of themselves (the video was edited, an RPG was reportedly found).

Assange gets to rebut ("there was no firefight") and frame (honestly) his organization's intent ("maximum political benefit"). He's right and justified, I think, but that doesn't mean he can't or shouldn't be challenged. He didn't fluster, his answers were clear and to the point.

And Colbert's last question signals his primary allegiance is to the truth -- better to know than not to know. And that's a huge endorsement of WikiLeaks.

My guess is that the seriousness and in-characterness Colbert showed in this interview was a deliberate attempt to match the gravity of the matter directly at hand.

You can argue that the same intensity should apply when he's interviewing the talking heads and politicos who orchestrated the decision to invade Iraq in the first place (I agree!), but the sad fact is that the country and the culture at large don't support that approach right now, don't see those people that way (as war criminals).

Colbert and Jon Stewart have been the main vectors for truth-telling and political honesty since 9/11, working from and protected by their reputation as comedians -- the traditional role of the jester as a truth-telling clown. More direct criticism of the dominant war narrative has been impossible to sustain in the mainstream.

That needs to change. But to change that, you'll have to change the culture.

soapy said...

I thought Chaucer dealt with 'honour' ~600 years ago.

Llangennith, where replacing waves have left / for seconds on the sand / the Channel's soapy rind, haul of their theft.

Freddie said...

Very good points -p.

-p. said...

Shorter version: complete in-character dead-serious opposition is the highest endorsement Colbert can give. And that's what that was.

Louis B. said...

Bashing outside-the-mainstream antiwar opinion is great for those who want to prove their patriotic bona fides.

Charles said...

I can't follow Cook, and others, to the point of saying that this couldn't be murder. What possible standing can we have to call anything a war crime then?

A war crime would be the intentional violation of the laws of war. It's fairly clear that didn't happen here -- assuming you watch the unedited footage, without Wikileaks telling you everything the soldiers didn't know when the incident was taking place, thus igniting moral outrage and making it impossible to see what the soldiers saw. That was my experience of it, anyways.

The key question regarding the destruction of the van is whether or not the soldiers thought that the people in the van were picking up weapons as well as bodies and wounded -- and that they may have thought so, is indicated in the audio, in which they describe men picking up guns and bodies, which is why they were given authorization to fire. Since that segment of the audio occurs when the video isn't tracking the van, it's impossible for us to know what the soldiers saw. One could assume they were lying. I think that's an unfair assumption, given the distance and the low quality of the video. I think it's much more likely they were mistaken.

But the commentary on the edited version of the video almost guarantees that the viewer won't reach that conclusion, just as it almost guarantees that the viewer won't realize that just prior to the first round of shooting, the soldiers in the Apache saw a large cylindrical object being pointed at the Bradley in which their comrades were riding.

Wikileaks also failed to mention that the helicopter was called in because un-uniformed men carrying AKs -- like the men with whom the photogrophers were walking -- had been staging attacks in that neighborhood all morning.

mac said...

The soldiers in this video? No. No, I don't support them. No. I do not support them. Their conduct has revealed themselves, to me, to be unworthy of my support.

For myself, watching the video, then digging into the backstory on what was going on in that area of Baghdad that morning, I have an easier time understanding those troops, if still finding the results of their actions horrific. There were armed men in the group, the area the group was walking through had been a combat zone all morning, US forces had no idea the reporters were in the area - and of course the pilots/gunners in the helicopters had no helpful Wikileaks subtitles, arrows editing and enhancement of the video to point out all of the elements which make this incident so terrible to watch. This event seems to me to fall under the heading of "tragic mistake in the middle of a war zone" - and I am far more interested (as I was in the lead-in to the war) in having a discussion of how we got into the war (outrageous and actionable lies about WMD's), than one tragic mistake made during that war (which is not to say I think this event should be ignored or covered up).

As William Tecumseh Sherman famously said "You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it - this doesn't excuse war crimes, but the line certainly gets very very blurred the minute you deploy troops with guns, it gets even more blurry when the "enemy" isn't wearing uniforms, or driving vehicles that are conveniently marked with black crosses or rising suns. Mass-civilian casualty events like the firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo were accepted strategy during WWII - by the "good guys", and there was certainly no discussion of war crimes charges for the planners or the pilots after the war. In the end I am glad that Wikileaks put this video out, I wish it were less edited etc. as judgments should be made without all the commentary (and the backstory of the area and the day does help understand what happened) - anything that helps the American people wake up to the results of deploying armed troops into combat is a good thing, it seems far to easy for most to forget the terrible costs, to all sides.

Freddie said...

I think those are very good points from both Charles and mac, and I should take greater care when using a term like "war crimes" which has a technical definition.

Anonymous said...

War crime?
Ask germany and Japan about war crimes.What did we do to them?
War is a crime is it not?Did the soldiers get clearance to shoot?Were they ordered to shoot?Kill?That is their job,hate to break it you.Im against these wars too.But this sort of horror is the inevitable consequesnce.Innocent people get killed in a firefight,women and children too.And soldiers are trained not to think or feel for the people they are fighting or they couldnt do that job huh.Uh and mistakes happen,all the time too.Do you know how many soldiers die from "freindly fire"?Maybe we should think about this before we go to war.Im not making excuses this was a terrible thing but that is the nature of the beast.And the soliers behind the guns?Dont think they werent effected they may act like tough guys when surrounded by their buds because they have to,but then they come home and are killing themselves at an alarming rate.Putting them in that position is a crime too no?

Bob said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Well, first off, contrary to what some have written, it's by no means clear that Colbert broke character.

What "he" (in any incarnation) brought to notice was the way the footage had been slanted (the editing, the title, the fact that the weapon - one capable of downing a helicopter, no? - a man was carrying wasn't identified a such.)

An argument could be made that actually being in the "fake news" biz Colbert has a particular responsibility to comment on editorial slanting from journalists.

I'll resist the urge to snark, but, frankly, this was a dubious and self-aggrandizing post.

It was serious, upsetting footage and it raises serious questions and issues. This fulsome, self-congratulatory outpouring was unworthy of them.

Anonymous said...

Don't kid yourself that where a soldier was born or the uniform he wears makes it impossible that he will participate in such.

If anything, the structure of power and the stressful environment of a military occupying force makes it almost inevitable that such things will happen. See the Stanford Prison Experiment. In a sense, that is just how people work.

Colbert's last question signals his primary allegiance is to the truth -- better to know than not to know. And that's a huge endorsement of WikiLeaks.

That's a huge endorsement of WikiLeaks only if we can assume that what WikiLeaks presents is The Truth. That seems problematic, because of the aggressive editing and editorializing accompanying their presentation.

Freddie said...

I'll resist the urge to snark, but, frankly, this was a dubious and self-aggrandizing post.

It was serious, upsetting footage and it raises serious questions and issues. This fulsome, self-congratulatory outpouring was unworthy of them.

I work very hard on taking commenter criticism seriously. Far harder, I think, than the vast majority of bloggers. So I hope you'll take this in that context: this is not a responsible or mature criticism. Fulsome? Self-congratulatory? I am here stating that these issues are complicated and very hard to parse. I am asserting precisely that this was "serious, upsetting footage and it raises serious questions and issues." Exactly that. And you are criticizing me for... what, exactly? Nothing.

The truth is, you're just another drive-by, anonymous coward. Well: enjoy. Nothing ventured, so nothing gained.

Japhet said...

1. I agree that its hard to determine whether Colbert actually broke character. I feel the end of the interview becomes less of an attack on WikiLeaks and more of a real Q&A.

2. There also seems to be confusion about whether there was actually a firefight in the that neighborhood hours prior to the incident. I've seen several commenters (here and elsewhere) defend the soldiers actions with that fact, yet Assange clearly states that rumor to be false and not backed up by military records.

3. In regard to the carrying of weapons in Baghdad without a uniform: Isn't this what a guerilla war-zone is like? Many of these un-uniformed men are defending themselves (I'm sure the NRA can get behind that idea) and some have even been hired as body guards by wealthier Iraqi families, international press and journalists or anyone else seeking additional protection. If thats understood in military procedure, you'd think the soldiers and US gunships would take a bit more pre-caution before lighting up an entire crowd of civilians.

Danton said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Danton said...

Two points which have been made by others elsewhere but may be relevant here.

First, this kind of incident happened hundreds if not thousands of times during the occupation of Iraq, where innocent people going about their business were killed by the occupying forces. As a consequence, ordinary Iraqis today don't consider Americans to be liberators. Rather, they deeply resent the U.S. for the carnage they unleashed upon their society. Even if every incident like this one was a case in which soldiers were faithful to the rules of engagement, there is clearly something wrong when those rules permit the slaughter of innocents on such a massive scale.

Second, there is nothing clinical or measured in the soldiers approach to this situation. You don't have to be a veteran, only a human being to know what was going through their minds. All this spin about context and fog of war is bullshit because the soldiers themselves did not say or do anything which would justify such qualifications. Charles argues that it would be unfair to think they didn't have any reasons to attack the van. Just listen to the glee with which they fire on these people, and then tell me that isn't its own justification in the minds of these men.

Van said...

I concur for the most part with p.'s interpretation of Colbert's actions during the interview of Julian Assange, Mr. DeBoer.

Colbert's very serious and thus seemingly out-of-character 'transgression' compelled his audience to be more attentive. In saying (paraphrasing) "You edited and put subtitles on this video turning it into a pure editorial," with such gravity and intensity Assange likewise was compelled to respond thoughtfully as though he was confronting a hostile interrogator, what one should expect of Colbert -- the militaristic, neo-con ideologue.

The issue with Colbert aside, I take issue with elements of your assertions regarding criticism of our troops. Basically, I believe that criticizing our forces in the field is a meaningful and important part of being willing to engage in violence toward a political end. However, I believe that criticism must grant the benefit of the doubt to soldiers in the conduct of their duties.

I see the death of a number of individuals in the WikiLeaks video. I hear soldiers exhibiting what one could identify as an expected, if painful to confront, level of dissociation.

What I do not see or hear in the WikiLeaks video are soldiers acting outside of their chain of command. It is in the interest of the soldiers to annihilate what they identify as enemies that are confirmed as such by their superiors.

Perhaps the rules of engagement were poorly written, defined, explained or implemented resulting in fire on journalists and erstwhile rescuers and their subsequent deaths, but I see no evidence of murder or war crimes.

It would be sensible at this time for Congress or some responsible non-military agency to re-visit this event and investigate. However, I believe that what will be discovered is at worst the sorts of events that have led to innumerable massacres and horrors in past wars which were not prosecuted.

WikiLeaks's video is another dark and painful reminder to us all why choosing to engage in war should require the serious deliberation of the U.S. Congress with a declaration of war as the rarest of results.

Freddie said...

However, I believe that criticism must grant the benefit of the doubt to soldiers in the conduct of their duties.

I agree with this for sure, Van, and with much of what you say. I think I am coming around on some of these issues, but when I watch the video again-- including the uncut, unedited video-- I feel such horror and sadness. Where I can't see myself changing is in the basic feeling that we have allowed support for the troops to become an unwillingness to criticize the troops in any situation, and my conviction that we must remain able to judge soldiers who do thinks that truly violate their legal and moral duty.

Van said...

Yes, we have let the rhetoric of "Support the troops!" take on the quality of cheering "USA! USA!" at an international sporting event.

In permitting ourselves to criticize while granting a reasoned benefit of the doubt to the soldiers we do them and our nation service.

The excess of patriotism and the corollary that our troops can do no wrong is one of the worst legacies of this unending "war."

One more note, and perhaps it is because I have Nietzsche too much on my mind having just read The Birth of Tragedy and Truth and Lying in a Non-Moral Sense. I can't help but think of the level of dissimulation that war requires of us to be successful.

John Small Berries said...

Colbert was actually staying in character, not breaking it as he usually does (by signally with over-the-top rhetoric and a smirk that what he's saying is absurd).

While many of the points you make are good, -p, this is simply incorrect. In interviews, Colbert often describes his on-camera alter ego as a "well-meaning idiot"; that "over-the-top rhetoric" you complain of is part and parcel of the character he plays.

After the gag about pixelating the wrong face and disguising the wrong voice, Colbert very quickly dropped his usual routine. Gone were the ridiculous questions, the illogical conclusions, the reductio ad absurdam fallacies which normally characterize his interviews.

He asked very pointed, legitimate questions, in tones very far removed from those of the amiable idiot he normally plays.

That "over-the top rhetoric" and smirk have been the hallmarks of the character for nearly six hundred episodes. Are you really saying that you believe those few brief minutes of the intelligent, incisive interviewer was a rare instance of "staying in character", and the other 99.9996% of Colbert's on-camera time has been spent "breaking character"?

Anonymous said...

FWIW, I was at the taping, and Colbert came out after the interview, out of character, to ask how many people had seen the video and how they felt about releasing it. He clearly had mixed feelings, and was troubled by the title 'Collateral Murder' in particular. Did he break character during the interview? Hard to say - but based on what he said afterwards, the concerns he raised during it are his own.

Charles said...

...but when I watch the video again-- including the uncut, unedited video-- I feel such horror and sadness.

This. And for me at least, this would be the case even if the wounded and killed had all been confirmed armed insurgents (or freedom fighters, or whatever interpretation one prefers). The actual cost of sending our troops halfway around the world to kill people we know next to nothing about is horrific in ways that casualty lists and news reports never capture. I suspect we'd invade countries less often if we had to face up to that and be reminded of it regularly.

So I should clarify: I'm not pissed off at Wikileaks for publishing the footage. I wish we could make this sort of thing required viewing for voters. I'm pissed off that they dumped their commentary on viewers before we had a chance to evaluate the evidence on its own.

Anonymous said...

This has nothing to do with supporting the troops- and Colbert clearly does acknowledge the importance of outlets like wikileaks-- this is about framing content that is both devastating and worthy of condemnation in a way that prevents anyone who comes across that content from coming to that conclusion on their own. I take no issue with the service that is wikileaks, in fact I think it's a critical source of information. I do, however, take serious issue with the disservice done by all of the journalists who, without hesitation, echoed wikileaks framing of the video. Collateral murder is the assessment they came to, and assuming the laziness of a mass audience they imposed that assessment onto the video in a way limited the discussion that took place. Similarly, that initial framing gave journalists an excuse to be lazy, the story was handed to them in the evidence. Colbert pushed back and asked questions, isn't that the job of journalists? To not only question the veracity of information but the credibility of those who present it? With regards to the Iraq war, the manipulation of information wasn't as immediately evident, and the deference of the media wasn't as uncomfortably palpable. In these circumstances, don't fault him for cracking but make no mistake that is what happened- he cracked under the weight of something so obvious receiving so little attention.

TONY said...

I'm reminded, in Colbert's preposterous stance of defending the 'honour' of US soldiers (by implication all of them) of Bill Hicks remark during the first Gulf War massacres in 1991. 'I find myself in the unfortunate position of being in favour of the war but against the troops'.